Flotilla: Even state officials say Netanyahu, IDF spread lies

Posted: June 29th, 2011 | Author: | Filed under: In the News, media | Tags: , , , , , , , | 17 Comments »

According to government sources, the army doesn’t have any evidence that the flotilla activists are planning violent resistance, yet it publicly accuses them of conspiring to murder soldiers

Flotilla activists preparing weapons for their encounter with IDF soldiers (photo: Mya Guarnieri)

Flotilla activists preparing weapons for their encounter with IDF soldiers (photo: Mya Guarnieri)

The top story in two of Israel’s leading daily papers yesterday was a bombshell: The IDF unveiled plans by flotilla passengers to kill soldiers trying to stop the ships from getting to Gaza.

Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s most widely read paper, ran a headline declaring “Flotilla activists set to kill,” which was attributed to military sources (but only in the fine print). The story declared, “Intelligence information revealed violent plans.” In the inside pages, the headline declared that this flotilla is considered to be “more violent than the previous one.”

Maariv’s top story covered the same topic: “IDF intelligence reveals: Lethal acid on flotilla boats.” The free paper Israel Hayom had a smaller headline in the front page. “Fear: Flotilla activists will try to kill soldiers.” Haaretz is the only paper that didn’t give the story such prominence in its print edition, but it was the top headline on the paper’s website throughout the previous evening. The Jerusalem Post’s headline read “IDF: Some flotilla activists planning to kill soldiers.

You can view all front pages of the Hebrew papers in this pic, taken from the media blog Velvet Underground. Yedioth and Maariv are the bottom two.

Front Pages of Israeli papares, June 28 2011 (photo: velvet underground blog)

Front Pages of Israeli papares, June 28 2011 (photo: velvet underground blog)

Chemical Weapons? Against the Israel Navy Seals, Air Force and war ships? Even as a suicide mission, it sounded too fantastic. And how could this flotilla be “more violent,” when the notorious IHH, whose members were on the Mavi Marmara last year, cancelled its participation? Who exactly is going to execute the soldiers with the lethal acid, 64- year-old Alice Walker? It was the kind of propaganda no thinking person could believe, yet the entire Hebrew media – even Haaretz! – went for it.

Luckily, it didn’t take Max Blumenthal to debunk this one. The media’s tone today was entirely different. Government sources have told Maariv that the so-called “intelligence information” was a spin by Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, reflecting “a Hasbara [propaganda] hysteria.”

“It’s unthinkable that in cabinet meetings we receive information according to which there are no threats of violent actions from the flotilla activists or [indication of] the presence of terror elements on the ships, and that at the same time, senior political sources, including the army, feed the media with information that is the exact opposite of what we were given.”

Information that the media was only to eager to swallow, one should add.

A day too late, Yedioth Ahronoth’s military correspondent was the voice of reason in his paper:

“There isn’t a shred of evidence that extreme elements will initiate resistance against IDF soldiers. There is no knowledge of the existence of firearms on the ships.”

The damage, however, was done. The reports of the murderous intentions of the flotilla activists traveled around the country and across the world. Not for the first time, a group of unarmed European and American activists traveling on old yachts was presented as a threat to the security of the region’s superpower. The only question is: for how long will the world continue to buy these kind of stories?

Maariv’s story today offers a comment from Prime Minister Netanyahu’s office, claiming the information that was passed to the media came from IDF spokesperson unit. In response to my question today, the IDF spokesperson’s office made it clear they stand behind the information that was released yesterday.


17 Comments on “Flotilla: Even state officials say Netanyahu, IDF spread lies”

  1. 1 droid said at 1:33 am on June 30th, 2011:

    The news here in Ireland this morning is that the propeller shaft of the the irish ship Saorsie has been damaged in a probable sabotage incident.

    I seem to remember a quote from the IDF last year stating that this was the preferred option and tacitly taking credit for sabotage had been committed on two ships whilst docked in Crete.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/israel-gaza-flotilla-sabotage-suspected

  2. 2 maayan said at 2:20 am on June 30th, 2011:

    Admit it, Noam, you’re glad these idiots are running Israel’s PR instead of me. :-)

  3. 3 noam said at 2:23 am on June 30th, 2011:

    @Maayan true, true.

  4. 4 droid said at 3:54 am on June 30th, 2011:

    For all the talk of the sophistication of Israel’s Hasbara machine, the organised internet lobbying and slick PR reps – there seems to be a major disconnect between Israel’s perception of itself as seen by the West (at whom most of its propaganda efforts are aimed) and how it is actually percieved.

    I can only speak from a European perspective, but the most astonishing thing about last years efforts was the remarkable crudity of Israels’ efforts. The fake ‘nazi radio remark’ controversy and the appalling heal the world parody video being prime examples.

    These stories, along with the fake gay activist video just show that Israel still doesn’t have a clue… I dunno, maybe it works in the US? To the rest of us, Israel just looks like another dodgy middle eastern state clumsily trying to manipulate public opinion.

  5. 5 maayan said at 11:57 am on June 30th, 2011:

    Droid, you do understand, I hope, that the other Middle Eastern countries don’t receive even a small fraction of the non-stop criticism that is directed at Israel. That Israel and its supporters have to battle on numerous fronts a very committed PR machine for the Palestinians. And, of course, I’m positive that you realize that Israel stands out from among all those dodgy Middle Eastern states in that even though it’s the only true democracy in the region, the only country with a vibrant and free press, the only country with a strong and independent judicial system,a country that has produced the highest life expectancy for its Arab population in a region of Arab populations, the only country in the region where its Arab voters can truly and openly express themselves as voters, the only country which permits an open opposition to its very foundations as a state to come from within…you do realize that this is also the only country that has had to fight 8 wars in its 63 years of existence, the only country whose existence is being questioned non-stop by its neighbors, the only country at the UN Human Rights Commission to be constantly and regularly picked on even as countries sitting in that council commit far worse crimes, the only country that can expect an automatic voting bloc against it in the General Assembly, the Security Council, various UN bodies like UNESCO and the only country in the world that can’t even apply to sit on the Security Council because it is not permitted to join its natural group at the UN?

    Oh, and of course, just in case these differences between other Middle Eastern states and Israel don’t make you reconsider your blinded view of Israel, consider carefully that despite all of the obstacles it faces, Israel has vastly outperformed all of its dodgy neighbors in terms of developing the country, its culture, its institutions, its economy, its medical care, etc.

    From an Israeli perspective, then, I’m sure you won’t mind me telling you that Europeans should be highly supportive of Israel instead of the other countries of the Middle East whose values are those represented by the regimes of Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. When, instead, you compare us to them, you are embarrassing yourselves, not our “hasbara efforts.”

  6. 6 Tom Mitchell said at 9:27 pm on June 30th, 2011:

    Droid,
    Is dodgy the new term to replace shitty among “progressive” and “sophisticated” Europeans?

  7. 7 droid said at 1:43 am on July 1st, 2011:

    No, dodgy, just means dodgy. Look it up. ‘Sophistication’ is not a word I used, in fact the entire point I was making was the utter lack of ‘sophistication’ on the part of Israel, and my comment primarily concerned Israel’s PR efforts.

    Maayan – first Id like to make it clear that I dont support ‘other countries in the middle east’, and I have no wish to get into a general argument about the state of Israel, but you bring up some interesting points.

    Israel has fought 8 wars, yes, but other than 1948 and 1973, they started those wars (in defense of course), none of these involved numerous war crimes including brutal ethnic cleansing. Evoking Israel’s various invasions of Lebanon as an example of the threat Israel faces is in no way laughable.

    Israel’s commitment to democracy is of course plain to see in it’s extension of sufferage and basic human rights to those under it’s occupation and its utterly egalitarian and resolutely non-racist attitudes towards its arab citizens.

    Israel is currently in violation of 140 or so general assembly resolutions and multiple security council resolutions and indulges in violations of international law on a daily basis through its continuing annexation of the west bank and its vicious blockade of Gaza, not to mention its casual use of extra-territorial sabotage, piracy and assassination, but of course, this could have nothing to do with its being ‘picked on’ at the UN and in the international community.

    Israel’s Arab minority has a lower life expectancy than that of Jewish citizens; the Arab community suffers from higher infant mortality rates. There is about a five year difference between the life expectancy of Jews and Arabs. Muslim-Arabs have an infant mortality rate of 7.3 for every 1,000 births – and among the Bedouins it was 15.5 – compared to just 3.1 for Jewish citizens. None of this could possibly be interpreted as discrimination within the Israeli health care system.

    Im sure the 10,000 Bedouin’s in the Negev whose villages are facing destruction would have more to add regarding Israel’s sterling treatment of its minorities.

    The legal system in Israel is of course a paragon of independence and virtue. There are certainly no double standards when it comes to settler violence against Palestinians, or any disparity between the property rights of Jews and Arabs. We can also discount the idea that Israel’s judiciary has anything but a shining record on the use of torture, the degrading treatment of Arab prisoners, arbitrary detention, denials of fair public trials or denial of civil liberties.

    As we can see from the articles in the post above, Israel’s free press is also an example for the world to follow. The unqualified regurgitation of military propaganda as fact is something that could never happen in Israel, and military censorship of domestic news, and security censorship of international news is something that could only happen in Arab dictatorships. I’m sure the right to self expression is also something all Israeli Arabs cherish, and protestors in Israel would never be subject to arbitrary detention or harassment by security forces.

    Israel’s economic progress is indeed a wonder to behold, and could of course have nothing to do with the stimulation of the technology sector through massive military subsidies provided by the US taxpayer as part of an endless war against a crushed and wretched people.

    Of course, as Israel continues to regard itself as a paragon of democratic virtue in the middle east, it is wholly inappropriate to expect it to abide by international law and to uphold the basic standards of human rights expected of democratic states, and we should instead focus on the crimes of arab dictatorships who hold no such allusions.

    I greatly look forward to reveling in the inspiration of Israel’s example to the region in the upcoming days and weeks as they gently shepherd a small group of non-violent activists delivering aid to one of the most shattered societies on Earth.

  8. 8 droid said at 2:59 am on July 1st, 2011:

    Oh, and @ Noam, apologies for provoking such a pointless debate on your blog, which I find is an excellent resource and is genuinely positive testimony of the pluralist and humanist qualities in Israeli society (non-sarcastic this time).

  9. 9 maayan said at 5:08 am on July 1st, 2011:

    No, no, Droid, you evaded the point entirely. The point was that you were comparing Israel to its neighbors. Now go through your list again and compare Israel to its neighbors. After all, they’re all dodgy Middle East states.

  10. 10 droid said at 5:31 am on July 1st, 2011:

    I’m sorry Mayan, but thats incorrect, I made the point that the clumsiness of Israel’s propaganda makes Israel look like just another dodgy middle eastern state. I could just as easily have said Russia. I did not make a qualitative comparison between Israel and its neighbors, though it is noted the fact that even the merest hint of a comparison seems to have touched a sore nerve.

    Anyway, great work regurgitating the approved talking points above. Maybe you should go for that IDF PR job after all.

  11. 11 maayan said at 8:00 am on July 1st, 2011:

    “Israel has fought 8 wars, yes, but other than 1948 and 1973, they started those wars (in defense of course),”

    Actually, they didn’t start ’67 (Egyptian casus belli) or ’56 (terror attacks). They were under attack from Palestinians in Lebanon in ’82 (bombing the North) and from Hizbullah in ’06 (attack on outposts AND communities to draw attention away).

    ” none of these involved numerous war crimes including brutal ethnic cleansing.”

    By whose standards? Which European country are you from, because if it’s part of NATO or a partner to America’s wars we can do a comparison of your country’s military activities and Israel’s.

    “Evoking Israel’s various invasions of Lebanon as an example of the threat Israel faces is in no way laughable.”

    That’s right, because they only had 20,000 rockets aimed at Israel and launched thousands of them completely freezing Israel’s north in the last war. Now they only have 50,000 rockets so we’re all laughing.

    “Israel’s commitment to democracy is of course plain to see in it’s extension of sufferage and basic human rights to those under it’s occupation and its utterly egalitarian and resolutely non-racist attitudes towards its arab citizens.”

    Israel has permitted the Palestinians to have an elected government and has since stayed out of their business. Even when they opposed Hamas running for office, they did the Americans’ bidding and we’re all paying the price to this day. So democracy? Yes, under Israel’s occupation.

    As for racism, which European country are you from again? This country offers rights to its Arab citizens on par with its Jewish citizens. Just a few days ago the government had to back off a bill to give special rights to former soldiers. Why? Because it discriminates against Arabs who do not serve. Get it? This shitty little country with its racist, discriminatory attitudes can’t even give special rights to people who contribute years of their lives, sometimes at great personal risk to defend the country against those friendly Arab states and entities who don’t represent a threat because it would be discriminatory to the Arabs in this country, some of whom cheer for Israel’s enemies.

    “Israel is currently in violation of 140 or so general assembly resolutions and multiple security council resolutions and indulges in violations of international law on a daily basis through its continuing annexation of the west bank and its vicious blockade of Gaza, not to mention its casual use of extra-territorial sabotage, piracy and assassination, but of course, this could have nothing to do with its being ‘picked on’ at the UN and in the international community.”

    Of course not. Who would even consider that with an 57 country Muslim bloc and numerous other countries possessing every reason in the world (except moral ones, of course) to be supportive of the 57 country bloc with its enormous population base, natural resource base and general instability. So, of course, we should all be extremely respectful of a body that does nothing when Russia goes into Chechnya like a bull in a china shop or when Syria murders hundreds upon hundreds of its citizens because it can and we should all consider all those UN resolutions which Israel is supposedly violating as inviolable. Gosh, all that international law stuff is making me all giddy.

    As an aside, Israel is adhering to the key international laws in place, which is why the US couldn’t bring itself to call the settlements illegal and why the occupation is perfectly legal. But never mind, you go off and pontificate about how a body that permits Libya to chair its human rights council can sit in judgment of Israel.

    “Israel’s Arab minority has a lower life expectancy than that of Jewish citizens; the Arab community suffers from higher infant mortality rates. There is about a five year difference between the life expectancy of Jews and Arabs. Muslim-Arabs have an infant mortality rate of 7.3 for every 1,000 births – and among the Bedouins it was 15.5 – compared to just 3.1 for Jewish citizens. None of this could possibly be interpreted as discrimination within the Israeli health care system.”

    Right. There are many cultural issues that Israel has had to battle through all of these decades. However, to its credit, it has brought its Arab population to a life expectancy that exceeds that of Americans. Pretty good, huh?

    Oh wait, you think that because Jews live longer in Israel, there is some endemic discrimination in the health care system!

    Let’s explore the world. In Australia, aborigines have a life expectancy 20 years lower than non-aborigines.

    Canada? Fuck Canada! Look what they’re doing, those discriminatory Canadians:

    Higher rates of chronic diseases, such as diabetes: Type 2 diabetes affects First Nations and Métis people three to five times more than the general Canadian population. Although, there is less type 2 diabetes among the Inuit, they are beginning to acquire the disease in greater numbers.
    Higher rates of infectious diseases, such as tuberculosis: First Nations/Inuit tuberculosis rates are 10 times higher than for other Canadians.
    A gap in life expectancy of Aboriginal men and women compared to the non-Aboriginal population: On average, First Nations men live seven years less than other Canadian men, and First Nations women, five years less than other Canadian women. Life expectancy for Inuit is also believed to be lower although statistics are not available for all northern regions.
    Higher rates of suicide, especially among Aboriginal youth: The suicide rate of First Nations youth is five to six times higher than the national average and for Inuit youth 11 times higher. Suicide is the single greatest cause of injury-related deaths for Aboriginal people.

    And while we’re at it, the Americans can also go to hell with their discrimination. American Indians and Alaska natives live a full 5 years less than their non-Indian non-native counterparts.

    I understand why you’re lecturing Israel. Yes indeed, that rotten, discriminatory shitty little state that has brought its Arab population to a life expectancy within two years of its Jewish population (Arab women) and 4 years for men.

    Of course, there is the small issue that both infant mortality and life expectancy in Israel are skewed not just toward Jews, but in favor of Christians again. My medical sources tell me that in Israel’s Islamic society, there is a small problem of consanguine marriages, but don’t let that bother your pretty European heart. You know discrimination when you see it.

    Oh, PS, Israeli Arabs, the Muslim ones, if counted separately, would be around spot 35 in the international list of countries’ life expectancy. Even in Judea and Samaria, they’d be around 60th place. Evil, evil, evil Israelis!

    “Im sure the 10,000 Bedouin’s in the Negev whose villages are facing destruction would have more to add regarding Israel’s sterling treatment of its minorities.”

    I’m sure in your fine European country, people can determine that wherever they want to live and build communities, they can without any need for permission and agreement from authorities. I’m sure there is no form of master planning and, I’m positive that in your excellent country, shepherds can go around taking up huge swathes of land that literally amount to something in the single digits of your country’s land mass. Not.

    “The legal system in Israel is of course a paragon of independence and virtue. There are certainly no double standards when it comes to settler violence against Palestinians, or any disparity between the property rights of Jews and Arabs. We can also discount the idea that Israel’s judiciary has anything but a shining record on the use of torture, the degrading treatment of Arab prisoners, arbitrary detention, denials of fair public trials or denial of civil liberties.”

    Indeed, just a few weeks ago when the ex-president of Israel, Katzav, was sentenced to prison by a presiding Arab judge (and two Jewish female judges who must have forced the poor Arab guy to do it). I can’t help think how unjust the High Court that ruled against the placement of the Security Fence in Bil’in’s territory and made torture illegal must be.

    Yes indeed.

    “As we can see from the articles in the post above, Israel’s free press is also an example for the world to follow.”

    That’s right. If you just look at Ha’aretz, you can see the absence of free expression in Israeli media. I understand Amira Hass is livid about this. I’d give you more examples, but I’m about to go read a Larry Derfner article in the Jerusalem Post. It’s called something like, “What a shitty little country full of shitty little people.” That was a paraphrase, but he makes a living writing severe critiques of Israel all the time and does just fine for himself, thank you.

    “The unqualified regurgitation of military propaganda as fact is something that could never happen in Israel,”

    Or in the USA, Canada, France, England, Spain, Argentina, Chile, Japan, China, Russia or any other country that seeks to show loyalty to its troops. Should we go attack Libya now, but not Syria? Rah, rah rah!

    “Military censorship of domestic news, and security censorship of international news is something that could only happen in Arab dictatorships.”

    Well, we have Noam here and all of his friends at 972. Why don’t you ask him whether this has been a significant issue in Israel.

    “I’m sure the right to self expression is also something all Israeli Arabs cherish, and protestors in Israel would never be subject to arbitrary detention or harassment by security forces.”

    You mean members of Knesset who go around supporting Israel’s enemies openly, and do so with a nice salary? Or do you mean the Arabs celebrating Land Day every year? Or perhaps the Arabs celebrating Nakba Day? Do you mean Adalah or do you mean the faculty at Haifa University’s law school which just canceled singing Israel’s national anthem so as not to offend its Arab students?

    “Israel’s economic progress is indeed a wonder to behold,”

    Especially compared to Europe. What is that stat again? Oh yeah, Israel gets more VC investments than the top 5 European countries combined. And Israel with its 7 million people has more companies on the NASDAQ than any European country.

    “…and could of course have nothing to do with the stimulation of the technology sector through massive military subsidies provided by the US taxpayer as part of an endless war against a crushed and wretched people.”

    Um, you read too many pro-Palestinian sites, dude. Many of Israel’s high tech companies are in life sciences, internet, and clean-tech. They have nothing to do with military subsidies. Many of Israel’s tech companies involve engineering prowess that also has nothing to do with the military, other than perhaps its founders having met in the army or having belonged to some high-tech unit.

    America’s massive military subsidies are spent predominantly in the USA. Israel is obligated to spend 75% of what it gets buying US goods. If you’ll notice, America isn’t buying many drones from Israel but developing its own.

    And of course, the American taxpayer is paying to support a fellow democracy that gives the US quite a bit in their joint relationship including a great deal of support in intel and defense. Just as the Chiefs of Staff. Israel also helps develop technologies the US sometimes can’t on its own. Iron Dome is a case in point. The American taxpayer is helping themselves.

    Of course, the poor, crushed Palestinians could stop being poor and crushed if they would agree to peace and compromise. How’s that going?

    “Of course, as Israel continues to regard itself as a paragon of democratic virtue in the middle east, it is wholly inappropriate to expect it to abide by international law and to uphold the basic standards of human rights expected of democratic states, and we should instead focus on the crimes of arab dictatorships who hold no such allusions.”

    Um, just to put your BS into perspective, on average out of 18 Arab seats in the Knesset, 7 go to Zionist parties and their Arab MKs. As I said earlier, you’re only embarrassing yourself when you say things like “[Israel] uphold the basic standards of human rights expected of democratic states.”

    Stop embarrassing yourself this way.

    “I greatly look forward to reveling in the inspiration of Israel’s example to the region in the upcoming days and weeks as they gently shepherd a small group of non-violent activists delivering aid to one of the most shattered societies on Earth.”

    You mean, you will greatly enjoy the propaganda spectacle of people like Adam Shapiro who have called for the destruction of Israel traveling in a flotilla intended to open shipping lanes for arms to Gaza even as Gaza has no shortage of food, medicine or any other resources and now even has an open crossing with Egypt?

    Maybe, just maybe, the flotilla folks will surprise you and really go after the oppressor making Gazan lives miserable: the tyrannical Hamas.

    Nah, they’re too busy spewing the same absurdities as you. Thank god you’re just an internet dweeb and don’t act on these ridiculous statements of yours in the real world.

  12. 12 droid said at 8:31 am on July 1st, 2011:

    Wow, Maayan, that must have taken you all day.

    Not that its relevant, but just to let you know since it seems to be an obsession of yours, Im Irish, from Ireland, we are not a member of NATO, nor have we ever been involved in colonialism or ethnic cleansing, so feel free to do a comparison between Irelands and Israels military activities.

    One thing you might notice straight away, is that Israel is an occupier and colonial state whereas Ireland was a victim of occupation, ethnic cleansing and racist denial of self-determination for over 800 years, in fact, our ‘military activities’ tend to involve our UN peacekeeping troops in Lebanon being murdered by Israeli shells while our soldiers scream down the phone to IDF commanders telling them to stop firing.

    One area where my nationality may be relevant is of course the fact that coming from a nation that was been a victim of one of the longest occupations in human history means that you tend not to be taken in by the chauvinist bullshit and blind nationalism of those who try to justify occupation, discrimination, human rights violations and crimes against humanity.

  13. 13 Maayan said at 8:42 am on July 1st, 2011:

    Noam, it’s been fun but I have to go away for a while. I hope to be back eventually. Take care.

  14. 14 maayan said at 9:02 am on July 1st, 2011:

    Droid,
    I was born here and I speak the same language as my forefathers who also lived here. Sorry. My nation was drawn into wars and conflict it never sought and the losers of that conflict – the same people who initiated it – have never made peace with the fact they lost or that they were wrong to start their wars in the first place.

    Since I am also a descendant of Europe, I can assure you that you and other Europeans have a great deal to teach me about brutality, nationalism, discrimination, prejudice, hatred, war and murder. Your hypocrisy as a continent is mind-boggling.

    The “chauvinist bullshit and blind nationalism of those who try to justify occupation, discrimination, human rights violations and crimes against humanity” may exist in your neck of the woods quite mightily if I remember my history, recent and not so recent.

    What I can’t help noticing, however, is not just your double standards, your ignoring of the many facts I brought to bear to dispute your claims (it didn’t take all day because I’m familiar with what you regurgitated – you’ll notice there are no links, because at this point I’ve debated people like you ad nauseam) or your strict adherence to the narrative you’ve created for a country that I can assure you is far more multicultural, multi-ethnic and peaceable about these things than your enlightened country. No, what bothers me is that once again you see Europeans trying to put Jews in their place. We can’t defend ourselves the way Europeans and Americans can and do. We can’t build our country and enjoy self-determination the way Europeans and Americans do. Our institutions, though being more advanced in some cases than those of European and American states receive far more criticism – case in point being your mortality argument, or for example gay rights in Israel versus the USA.

    I’ll spell it out for you:
    I have a right to live here. I have a right to live specifically in this place where within an hour’s drive of me are several ancient synagogues that long predate Islam. I have a right to defend myself. I have a right to develop this society into one that is superior to yours in every way, even if it takes me a little longer to get there because I have to keep fighting existential and non-existential wars. I have a right to invite the Arabs to make peace with me, but only on terms that permit me to enjoy my right to self-determination.

    This is a very special society – open, warm, understanding, full of bright people and projects, with a broad political spectrum, a broad literary and journalistic spectrum, a democracy that has outlasted some extremely challenging periods, a military that teaches its soldiers to do their best to fight morally. This society has its flaws, for sure, and it openly seeks to rectify and discuss them. You should expend your energies supporting this special society by encouraging the Arabs to come to terms with it.

    Bye.

  15. 15 seafoid said at 5:42 am on July 4th, 2011:

    Maayan

    I thought you were taking the p*ss. But you weren’t. The hasbara doesn’t work, habibi.
    Israel started all of its wars bar 1973.

    So you were born in Israel. And so were your parents. Wow. What was your grandfather’s family name? What was his mother tongue? Where are his parents buried?

  16. 16 jason said at 7:17 am on July 4th, 2011:

    Israel wouldn’t exist if the Europeans had treated Jews differently over the past thousand years and especially over the past 150 years. It isn’t all that surprising to see an Israeli Jew tell a European that he is going to ignore his message about how a Jewish state needs to conduct itself.

  17. 17 Tom Mitchell said at 8:10 am on July 4th, 2011:

    Droid,

    “Im Irish, from Ireland, we are not a member of NATO, nor have we ever been involved in colonialism or ethnic cleansing…”

    You might want to explain why the Protestant population of Ireland went from almost 10% at the time of independence in 1921 to about 3% today. Maybe it was all of those non-ethnic cleansing Irish burning down Anglo-Irish homes during the Irish Civil War or the bullets and accompanying threats that were delivered to Anglo-Irish in the years following the civil war.

    And there were plenty of Irish that took part in the British colonial efforts in both Australia and New Zealand.

    “whereas Ireland was a victim of occupation, ethnic cleansing and racist denial of self-determination for over 800 years…”

    You should read the chapter in Paired O’Malley’s “Uncivil Wars” on the IRA and his dissection of the 800-year claim. Irish nationalist claims of the republican wing of Fianna Fail, which you seem to be repeating here are equivalent to those made in Israel by the Herut Party (the forerunner of the Likud) or those made by parties in Eastern Europe by various nationalist groups.

    Conor Cruise O’Brien, who as an Irish diplomat was responsible for participating in Ireland’s propaganda offensives, later repented and spoke truthfully about Ireland’s history under Fianna Fail rule.

    You fault Israel for continuing to be an occupying power, yet consider that Ireland maintained an irredentist claim on the territory of Northern Ireland for 67 years despite there not being an military threat against Ireland from the British government in Belfast. The only threat that Ireland faced was from a few bombings by loyalist terrorists in the 1970s–terrorists who were never subsidized by government funds unlike the Provisional IRA.