Comments on: Liberal Jews and Israel / a case of split personality disorder

By: JC

JC — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:27:59 +0000

“What will happen if things get uglier here? Will it turn more people away from their heritage?”

I think that ultimately will happen. If there were a moderately religious Jewish movement critical of Israel then I think American Jews would flock to it. But there is simply no organized religious movement here that is critical of Israel at all aside from a few small and obscure Reform and Haredi groups (American Council for Judaism and Satmar). These Reform groups barely exist anymore and no one likes the Haredim. So this is really the fault of the organized Jewish community in America (in my opinion) for taking a no-holds-barred attitude towards Israel and conflating Israel with Judaism.

By: noam

noam — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:02:58 +0000

JC- interesting point about the Jews who criticize Israel ultimately tend to start distancing themselves from Judaism. One wonders how many community leaders are sensitive to the dangers – not just the benefits – of identifying Judaism with Israel.

What will happen if things get uglier here? Will it turn more people away from their heritage?

By: JC

JC — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:06:18 +0000

I think this has a lot to do with how Jews see themselves, as you said in your post. Younger Jews (really, post-’67) are taught to identify Israel as a core part of their Jewish identity. They want to see themselves as good and they want to believe Jewishness is good and in their (our) minds Israel is thus projected as good. The reality is I think American Jews on the whole are very ill-informed about the realities in Israel. This is due to awful American media and deliberate policy of most Jewish institutions here that portray a fairy-tale Israel and shield American Jews from the ugly reality.

The problem with this is that Jews in the U.S. who reject Israel also tend to reject Judaism along with it since they are taught to conflate the two. Virtually every American Jew I have ever met who was critical of Israel also had disdain for Judaism or the Jewish community. Of course not all American Jews who criticize Israel think this way, including me, but most seem to.

One can almost immediately spot an American Jew who has the romantic fairy-tale view of Israel. Then after I spot them I groan because I know all about the hand-wringing and crying that they’ll do as they deprogram themselves.

By: noam

noam — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:09:59 +0000

right.

By: Rafi

Rafi — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:08:22 +0000

Mahmud Haniya? call him Ismail.

By: Haya

Haya — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:33:58 +0000

liaisons

By: Haya

Haya — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:30:53 +0000

First of all, to follow a utilitarian attitued, one has to fight for minorities’ rights at home, otherwise he himself might be at risk… So it is natural for jews to have liberal and even extreme liberal views at home (which is the US). Secondly, as you mentioned they know that israeli citizens will pay the price for security neglect, so better not interfere. Israel media tend to describe many internal affairs as security problems and people outside the country everywhere in the world tend to accept it. And finally I think you expect too much from people who live outside the country. Distance makes the difference. People are flooded by everyday troubles and all-serounding culture and cannot get into inner problems of another country and so are the american jews who keep one rule: Israel must survive and florish, no matter what.
Thank you for raising an important question about the “comunity integrity” (if we can talk about something like that) and touching basic issues of the immigrants liasons with the homeland in general.

By: noam

noam — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:30:25 +0000

Aviv – that’s what I’ve been hearing too, but is that good or bad?

Zvi – one of the problems is that US and Israeli politics became inseparable, so I think the Jews’ opinion actually plays a big role in the way the conflict is heading, whether we like it or not.

Jami – you are right, for some reason I though that just because I had American Jews in mind everybody else saw it that way too. But there are liberal Jews elsewhere of course (I ended up not changing the headline because I’m kind of a printed version person – once something is done, unless it’s a real mistake, I usually rather leave it the way it is).

By: Jami

Jami — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:45:54 +0000

Great post! I had to Tweet it, by the way.

You should clarify American-Jews in the post title though. It seemed a little vague to me until I started to read.

By: K.

K. — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:49:50 +0000

Yes, indeed, Noam. Thanks for this excellent post.